Why New Sim Racers Will Love Racing Formula Fords

John B. Ellis · Apr 24, 2025

FWIW, the Formula Trainer in AMS2 is essentially the Mygale SJ11, the last of their Duratec-powered Formula Ford 1600 cars prior to the Ecoboost era.

Andi Goodwin · Apr 24, 2025

i really like the frj in raceroom ; perfect for me ; very much a go to car for many things

Andi

Spinelli · Apr 24, 2025

I don't agree.

I think, sadly, most "new" sim racers will hate it and cars like it.

Most "new" or "recent" sim racers are really just casuals. They want to go straight to either "the fastest car in the game" or to the recent trend of overly-forgiving, way-under-powered-relative-to-the-amount-of-grip, overly-stable-and-easy-to-drive (relatively speaking of course), full-of-driver-aids, modern-day GT cars.

They're not "hardcore racing fans" who live, breath, and sleep racing - the type that read books about vehicle handling and car setups. The type that watch hours of onboards of racecars (well, besides some vague tips/advice videos here and there from sim racing youtubers/influencers but that's only so they can perform better in their videogame, it's not simply out of sheer curiosity or wanting to learn out of pure love or interest of racing).

The type that are thinking about different racing techniques or simply the love of lapping while sitting at a table with friends not hearing what anyone else is saying.

The "cut-throat" type that really want to be put against the test with cars that require very good/proper race-driving techniques along with no driver-aids (modern day GT racing is the complete opposite of this and, what a coincidence, it's by far the most popular as of the past few years).

The type who don't want to have their skills (or lack of) flattered by unrealistically overly stable and easy to drive cars.

The type who want to simply race cars and love racing amazing cars from all sorts of different series and years/eras/decades, and with all different types of horsepower and grip.

The type who read and watch 100s of hours/pages of books/documents/articles/videos about racing technique. even if they'll never become a real life racecar driver because they still need to know and understand it all because it's is a part of their soul, a part of their blood.

The type who's idea of "fun" is researching the web for articles and books about improving their driving.

The type who sim race literally because it's a replacement for real life racing and, if it wasn't for sim racing, they'd go crazy because they wouldn't be able to live without racing.

The type that can drive around for a long time with the same car, same track, and 0 opponents in order to really learn the car/track/conditions/setup to the best of his/her own personal ability - on a quest to find out more & more about the car, the track, and themselves, rather than "OMG, this is so boring, can I change car now?", "OMG, this car is so slow so it sucks." "OMG, this car doesn't turn or spins, it's not me, it's the car that sucks, I'm changing cars". "OMG, I hate these 2 turns, I always mess them up therefore the track sucks, I'm just going to change tracks rather than figure out what I'm doing wrong and what I can do to improve".

Most of the people recently getting into sim racing aren't the above type from what I've seen/heard/experienced over the past 5 or 6 years.

Furthermore, how many of them do you see in, say, F3s or karts in AMS1, the 80s Lotus F1 in AC, early-to-mid 90s F1 mods in RF1 or RF2, Power n Glory mod for GTR2, all sorts of wingless open-wheelers (F1600, etc.) across different sims, etc....and, on top of that, without driver aids (especially ABS, TC, auto-blip, auto-lift...I can personally forgive auto-clutch) and with cockpit view...unless they're very new to racing and don't know much (or are just really bad and don't care to learn but just love playing the videogame) then of course driver-aids are fantastic in those situations.

These people don't truly want to learn like it's a job and a passion, like it takes years and years of dedication and skill in real life (especially in real cut-throat series) - no different to real life. They just want to play a "more realistic videogame" while still having their skills flattered (much easier cars, driving aids, etc.) and not having to commit to really learning a skill and an art.

xDriver69x · Apr 24, 2025

Maybe the new sim racers want to race - Want to use realistic sim racing to get them to actual real seat time as quickly as possible. Nothing compares to actual time spent driving. Not spend all their time and efforts doing anything but, you know, racing..

Maybe motorsport rules and realistic handling of *ANY* car is far more important than the car itself.

dd11 · Apr 24, 2025

Real FF is rather ugly. While Skip Barber is not, for example.
Not sure if simcade titels delivers fun of not-so-powerful-cars like as well.
GrandPrixLegends had F2 cars that had MORE fun, more tactical, more "no driving mistakes" moments than F1 rockets where you have to step beyond control.

RaceNut · Apr 24, 2025

The F-Trainer in AMS2 is probably the car I spend most of my time with these days. Although slower, the Formula Vee is also fun. The Skippy in rF2 is also very satisfying to race.

John B. Ellis · Apr 24, 2025

The Formula Junior in AMS2 serves as a suitable historic variant within this division—and a car that Renato in particular has esteemed highly among the cars in AMS2.

Trebor901 · Apr 24, 2025

I never ever got on with formula ford style cars in any sim. I used to play live for speed all the time and my go to car on that was the "FOX" which was basically a formula renault of the time. That and the Formula BMW which were brilliant cars. They pretty much taught me all the throttle control techniques ive then carried forward through other sims. Saying that LFS was/is so under rated as a sim. Had some proper good races on that racing Nick Catsburg back in the day.

LMracer · Apr 24, 2025

Spinelli said:
I don't agree.

I think, sadly, most "new" sim racers will hate it and cars like it.

Most "new" or "recent" sim racers are really just casuals. They want to go straight to either "the fastest car in the game" or to the recent trend of overly-forgiving, way-under-powered-relative-to-the-amount-of-grip, overly-stable-and-easy-to-drive (relatively speaking of course), full-of-driver-aids, modern-day GT cars.

They're not "hardcore racing fans" who live, breath, and sleep racing - the type that read books about vehicle handling and car setups. The type that watch hours of onboards of racecars (well, besides some vague tips/advice videos here and there from sim racing youtubers/influencers but that's only so they can perform better in their videogame, it's not simply out of sheer curiosity or wanting to learn out of pure love or interest of racing).

The type that are thinking about different racing techniques or simply the love of lapping while sitting at a table with friends not hearing what anyone else is saying.

The "cut-throat" type that really want to be put against the test with cars that require very good/proper race-driving techniques along with no driver-aids (modern day GT racing is the complete opposite of this and, what a coincidence, it's by far the most popular as of the past few years).

The type who don't want to have their skills (or lack of) flattered by unrealistically overly stable and easy to drive cars.

The type who want to simply race cars and love racing amazing cars from all sorts of different series and years/eras/decades, and with all different types of horsepower and grip.

The type who read and watch 100s of hours/pages of books/documents/articles/videos about racing technique. even if they'll never become a real life racecar driver because they still need to know and understand it all because it's is a part of their soul, a part of their blood.

The type who's idea of "fun" is researching the web for articles and books about improving their driving.

The type who sim race literally because it's a replacement for real life racing and, if it wasn't for sim racing, they'd go crazy because they wouldn't be able to live without racing.

The type that can drive around for a long time with the same car, same track, and 0 opponents in order to really learn the car/track/conditions/setup to the best of his/her own personal ability - on a quest to find out more & more about the car, the track, and themselves, rather than "OMG, this is so boring, can I change car now?", "OMG, this car is so slow so it sucks." "OMG, this car doesn't turn or spins, it's not me, it's the car that sucks, I'm changing cars". "OMG, I hate these 2 turns, I always mess them up therefore the track sucks, I'm just going to change tracks rather than figure out what I'm doing wrong and what I can do to improve".

Most of the people recently getting into sim racing aren't the above type from what I've seen/heard/experienced over the past 5 or 6 years.

Furthermore, how many of them do you see in, say, F3s or karts in AMS1, the 80s Lotus F1 in AC, early-to-mid 90s F1 mods in RF1 or RF2, Power n Glory mod for GTR2, all sorts of wingless open-wheelers (F1600, etc.) across different sims, etc....and, on top of that, without driver aids (especially ABS, TC, auto-blip, auto-lift...I can personally forgive auto-clutch) and with cockpit view...unless they're very new to racing and don't know much (or are just really bad and don't care to learn but just love playing the videogame) then of course driver-aids are fantastic in those situations.

These people don't truly want to learn like it's a job and a passion, like it takes years and years of dedication and skill in real life (especially in real cut-throat series) - no different to real life. They just want to play a "more realistic videogame" while still having their skills flattered (much easier cars, driving aids, etc.) and not having to commit to really learning a skill and an art.

TLDR new simracers bad, modern race cars bad?

stenovitz · Apr 24, 2025

I like the premise of the article.
A low-powered single seater is IMO the perfect place to build your race craft and basic understanding of race car control.
I mention this, even though I rarely do single seaters these years.

However, now we're at it, I would rather suggest a winged version with a slightly larger engine and carbon fiber brakes. The wingless FF1600 can be a bit of a handful for the newbie without basic experience of car control, especially versions with steel disc brakes, even though if the engine is less powerful. Of course, it all depends on whether the new simmer has some basic car control experience from the real world, in that case I think it's a fun race car to master, just if you think about tracks with winding and quircky corners, elevations, besides a good challenges of your limits in wet conditions.

In the real world around I was offered a test in a Reynard SF-87 (4-speed H-pattern 2.0L SOHC ~150 Bhp / 443kg / front 185/60 R13 rear: 205/60 R13), i.e. a winged FF-2000 with a tad more power but still low weight, like this one:

L16.50.56_-_Historisk_Formel_-_3_-_Reynard_SF87%2C_1987_-_Niels_J%C3%B8rgen_J%C3%B8rgensen_-_heat_1_-_DSC_0232_Optimizer_%2836728872383%29.jpg

A surprisingly violent experience - as I jumped into the seat I was told "just floor it round the corners like it was a big junior kart". What a joke bird! I got my ribs squeezed and felt the ~25 min experience in my chest for a full three days afterwards

I've experienced new simmers not minding to begin in older sims with positive response of the fictional rF1 winged rTrainer (5-speed H-pattern, 115 Bhp @ 6500rpm / ~575Kg), crediting the flexibility and ability of testing the limits, being a gentle learning curve.

AMS2's more modern Formula Inter-MG15 (5-speed H-pattern 2.0L 161bhp / 615 kg) is actually also a nice starting point, especially if you have a more targeted aim towards the higher formula classes.

Kunos' own AC Tatuus FA01 (6-speed sequential (paddles) 1.4L Turbo ~200Bhp / 455kg / ventilated carbon brakes) is maybe the most beginner-friendly single seaters, if you are after basic driving technique but still strive for speed and power and bigger tracks with faster corner combinations.

If it has to be a wingless single seater I'll suggest AMS1's Formula Trainer; right up the alley for the newbie, starting with AIDS where it hurts and then mitigating a step-by-stepby practicing basic driving technique, gradually deactivating all AIDS.

Building on your sense of basic car control based on one or more of those low-powered single seaters, I would say you're in a very good place to move further on.

mcroshaw · Apr 24, 2025

I have tried variants of this car across all the modern sims that have it, and I would have to agree that the iRacing and AMS2 ones are my favourites. I find it hard to pick between them, but tend to go with the AMS2 one as being a little more fun to drive. Both great though, I think the iRacing one is one of the best cars on the service. I've had many great races there, the ones on Rudskogen with it's fairly terrifying downhill right hander on cold tyres stands out. But I also had a great race on LFM recently on the AMS2 variant at VIR north in the rain, that was a great race as well. Love these cars.

stenovitz · Apr 24, 2025

Spinelli said:
I don't agree.

I think, sadly, most "new" sim racers will hate it and cars like it.

Most "new" or "recent" sim racers are really just casuals. They want to go straight to either "the fastest car in the game" or to the recent trend of overly-forgiving, way-under-powered-relative-to-the-amount-of-grip, overly-stable-and-easy-to-drive (relatively speaking of course), full-of-driver-aids, modern-day GT cars.

They're not "hardcore racing fans" who live, breath, and sleep racing - the type that read books about vehicle handling and car setups. The type that watch hours of onboards of racecars (well, besides some vague tips/advice videos here and there from sim racing youtubers/influencers but that's only so they can perform better in their videogame, it's not simply out of sheer curiosity or wanting to learn out of pure love or interest of racing).

The type that are thinking about different racing techniques or simply the love of lapping while sitting at a table with friends not hearing what anyone else is saying.

The "cut-throat" type that really want to be put against the test with cars that require very good/proper race-driving techniques along with no driver-aids (modern day GT racing is the complete opposite of this and, what a coincidence, it's by far the most popular as of the past few years).

The type who don't want to have their skills (or lack of) flattered by unrealistically overly stable and easy to drive cars.

The type who want to simply race cars and love racing amazing cars from all sorts of different series and years/eras/decades, and with all different types of horsepower and grip.

The type who read and watch 100s of hours/pages of books/documents/articles/videos about racing technique. even if they'll never become a real life racecar driver because they still need to know and understand it all because it's is a part of their soul, a part of their blood.

The type who's idea of "fun" is researching the web for articles and books about improving their driving.

The type who sim race literally because it's a replacement for real life racing and, if it wasn't for sim racing, they'd go crazy because they wouldn't be able to live without racing.

The type that can drive around for a long time with the same car, same track, and 0 opponents in order to really learn the car/track/conditions/setup to the best of his/her own personal ability - on a quest to find out more & more about the car, the track, and themselves, rather than "OMG, this is so boring, can I change car now?", "OMG, this car is so slow so it sucks." "OMG, this car doesn't turn or spins, it's not me, it's the car that sucks, I'm changing cars". "OMG, I hate these 2 turns, I always mess them up therefore the track sucks, I'm just going to change tracks rather than figure out what I'm doing wrong and what I can do to improve".

Most of the people recently getting into sim racing aren't the above type from what I've seen/heard/experienced over the past 5 or 6 years.

Furthermore, how many of them do you see in, say, F3s or karts in AMS1, the 80s Lotus F1 in AC, early-to-mid 90s F1 mods in RF1 or RF2, Power n Glory mod for GTR2, all sorts of wingless open-wheelers (F1600, etc.) across different sims, etc....and, on top of that, without driver aids (especially ABS, TC, auto-blip, auto-lift...I can personally forgive auto-clutch) and with cockpit view...unless they're very new to racing and don't know much (or are just really bad and don't care to learn but just love playing the videogame) then of course driver-aids are fantastic in those situations.

These people don't truly want to learn like it's a job and a passion, like it takes years and years of dedication and skill in real life (especially in real cut-throat series) - no different to real life. They just want to play a "more realistic videogame" while still having their skills flattered (much easier cars, driving aids, etc.) and not having to commit to really learning a skill and an art.

I follow your worrying thoughts about dystopian future for the simracing world.

Been there myself for a decade, however mostly by impressions via the Internet, and not so much by direct IRL confrontation.

Fortunately young humans even at present day are still able to shake all your dark imaginations.

Myself I've been surprised in a positive manner several times, recent years.

For instance during Covid-19 by receiving requests pals in my local bike club (pedal race bikes, that is), wanting an introduction to simracing. And wow, I was truly surprised by their desire of "doing it right" and sense of details, one buddy in particular going at rocket speed in iRacing shortly after mastering basic skills, the other choosing the exploratory experience with historic racing cars and tracks (probably infected by my personal hobby

).
OK so have to admid both were adults (late 30ies and early 40ies)
But one day the former's 14-year-old daughter came and wanted to join and I was blown away by her genuine interest. Just wow!

Most recently, just a couple of weeks ago I was visited by my brother-in-law and his sons.
His youngest at 13 had started messing around with tuning classic mopeds at their yard, becoming further interested in everything with engines (zero interest in fast hybrid supercars). I told him about simracing (not expecting anything), he replied that he'd been playing BeamNG for years with joy. So I simply had to unfold my flexible simrig. And wow, another nice surprice, lovely car control. And I never knew!

Dunno whether I've just been lucky with my experiences, but I prefer to cling my hope to a bright future with positive thoughts. That appearances can be deceiving and that there may actually be a genuine interest in something other than gamepads and artificial driving experiences, but rather a desire to find the true joy of driving, by digging into the details - when you master it, the reward and addiction is on a completely other level

stenovitz · Apr 24, 2025

xDriver69x said:
Maybe the new sim racers want to race - Want to use realistic sim racing to get them to actual real seat time as quickly as possible. Nothing compares to actual time spent driving. Not spend all their time and efforts doing anything but, you know, racing..

Maybe motorsport rules and realistic handling of *ANY* car is far more important than the car itself.

Nice, I can rewatch this for hours

Personally delighted that simracing has become a respected genre in the real world of motorsports, e.g. now common for pro drivers practicing the other way around. And with full respect to the top sim racers - as here in another category:

A simmer never driven a drift car IRL before, jumps in in one of the most powerful models and after almost no time of adaption demonstrating his extreme skills so even the pro driver is left jaw dropping.

(yes, linked before on the old RD forum, but a rewatch worthy too, I think

)

Durge Driven · Apr 24, 2025

Back On Topic .......

xDriver69x · Apr 25, 2025

stenovitz said:
Nice, I can rewatch this for hours
Personally delighted that simracing has become a respected genre in the real world of motorsports, e.g. now common for pro drivers practicing the other way around. And with full respect to the top sim racers - as here in another category:

A simmer never driven a drift car IRL before, jumps in in one of the most powerful models and after almost no time of adaption demonstrating his extreme skills so even the pro driver is left jaw dropping.

(yes, linked before on the old RD forum, but a rewatch worthy too, I think )

Yeaup, seen this one and many like it. Always great for new racers to see. Car control IRL is primarily about adapting and understanding the feeling of dancing around the limit, being able to induce any desired car behavior in any condition/situation. sim racing still misses this fundamental greatly. It treats it as some singular monolithic behavior and a "perfect" way, when it is many interwoven for the reality of highly dynamic conditions. GT7 still nails it, especially the weather and wind vanes around the courses if you keep your eyes peeled.

And once folks understand the dynamics, getting IRL seat time helps to understand the reality of the bodily influences one experiences and how that makes it often much easier, but at what some say, a "cost", I say a way of loving and enjoying the use of your body every way you can. Then adapting to different cars is just understanding nuance, like going from syles of jazz to rock to classical to hungarian rap, exact same, just slight variations. Quite akin to how knowing a course is like learning a song or composition, and they can even be expressed in different styles/cars.

Richard Wilks · Apr 25, 2025

Funny how these "simracers turned real drivers" always seem to have big youtube channels, with big production numbers and huge followings... hmm no relation there i am sure

ArchTheSecond · Apr 25, 2025

xDriver69x said:
Yeaup, seen this one and many like it. Always great for new racers to see. Car control IRL is primarily about adapting and understanding the feeling of dancing around the limit, being able to induce any desired car behavior in any condition/situation. sim racing still misses this fundamental greatly. It treats it as some singular monolithic behavior and a "perfect" way, when it is many interwoven for the reality of highly dynamic conditions. GT7 still nails it, especially the weather and wind vanes around the courses if you keep your eyes peeled.

So what are you trying to say, that car behavior can't be influenced with inputs in sims? Sounds like magical thinking to me.

xDriver69x · Apr 25, 2025

Richard Wilks said:
Funny how these "simracers turned real drivers" always seem to have big youtube channels, with big production numbers and huge followings... hmm no relation there i am sure

Seems the other way around.. Success takes time... and great people like Jimmy Broadbent or Steve Brown came from just being good sim racing on Forza, Gran Turismo, and even Grand Theft Auto racing.

Richard Wilks · Apr 25, 2025

xDriver69x said:
Seems the other way around.. Success takes time... and great people like Jimmy Broadbent or Steve Brown came from just being good sim racing on Forza, Gran Turismo, and even Grand Theft Auto racing.

View attachment 837930
View attachment 837929

Seems you are trying to gaslight me.

They both had massive channels before their "racing" career took of. I am not slagging them off, but lets not kid ourselves, they are invited to race (or even pay for seats) because they are massively successfull content creators and influncers, not because they were "good at simracing" just. I dont think even they would deny this. (Steve was even a very rapid amateur go karter already).

Spinelli · Apr 25, 2025

I actually have more respect for "SuperGT" as a real-life racer (karting, I believe) than sim racer.

In all of his 100s or 1000s of videos, find me a video where he's using no ABS, no TC, no auto-blip, no auto-lift, an H-shifter, and cockpit view...you won't find one. In fact, only 1 out of those 6 things you can sometimes find: no TC.

Why New Sim Racers Will Love Racing Formula Fords

Automobilista 2​

RaceRoom Experience​

iRacing​

Overview​

The History of Formula Ford (1967-Present)​

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